The Nice Guy Trope, Explained

The Nice Guy Trope, Explained


“I’ve just invented a sketch
of a decent, sensitive guy…” “Maybe I’m not nice, you know?” He’s not like other guys,
He’s a nice guy. “Sorry, I’m not like a gross guy
trying to hit on you or anything.” If we look at the Nice Guy onscreen, we can break down
the qualities that define him. He’s a hopeless romantic. “I brought you these
and a poem I wrote for you.” The nice guy can be found
obsessively pining after a girl, making grand gestures or
jumping way ahead in planning the future of a relationship. “I have FOUND the future
Mrs. Ted Mosby.” But much to his chagrin,
he’s often pegged as friend material instead of as a true
boyfriend contender. “You waited too long to make your move
and now you’re in the friendzone.” This obsessive lover-boy
lives in his head. “Well, You know, You’re not
always one to face things.” and frequently struggles
to act on his feelings. “You could just ask her out.” “Don’t be stupid.” But the central irony of the nice guy
is that he’s not actually that nice. “Women never go for the nice guy.” “Please. Men say that,
but you get to know some of these men who complain the most,
you find out they’re not as nice as they like to think they are.” He may be the polar opposite of the stereotypical
male commitment-phobe, but his supposed romantic streak
is really just projecting a fantasy onto the woman he likes. “They do the thing where
they put you on a pedestal and they dote on you even though
you’ve never expressed any interest.” He talks about how girls
go for the wrong type of guys, “He’s going to use your ass
and throw you away.” but this rhetoric is usually just
an empty cover for wishing HE had the ladies man’s
confidence and mojo. [Paolo speaking Italian] [Ross pretending to speak Italian] And while he isn’t intimidating
or threatening on the surface, the unrequited love he’s too scared
to pursue can lead to a toxic build up of resentment or bitterness. “I don’t handle rejection well. Funny, considering all the practice I’ve had, huh?” The wisdom in our culture
has long been that nice guys finish last. So how did we end up
with a whole subgroup of male characters who are
trying really hard to be seen as Nice? Here’s our take on the Nice Guy:
what’s behind his niceness, why he’s his own worst enemy
and why — even if some of these guys are frauds,
the real thing CAN still exist. This video is brought to you
by Audible. The best audiobook service
out there with the largest selection of audio books on the planet. Click the link in our description audible.com/thetake
or text “The take” to 500-500 to start listening
with a 30 day Audible trial. You’ll get to choose one audio book and two Audible
originals absolutely free. Start listening today! The Nice Guy himself hasn’t
necessarily changed all that much over time, but in recent years
there have been HUGE shifts in the way viewers look at him. For most of history,
the male character who relentlessly pursued his love object regardless of whether
she was sure about him was portrayed as
charming and sweet. “It’s a pity you don’t have
as much charm as persistence.” “But I have. You’ve only seen
the aggressive side of me.” “What do you say, c’mon?” (Laughs) “Alright you win.” In Fred Astaire movies like
Top Hat and The Gay Divorcee, the male lead’s intense
infatuation with and pursuit of a woman he doesn’t
know well is presented as normal, because he’s so in love. “Peekaboo.” “Stop this cab at once.” One of the most definitive examples
of the Nice Guy trope is Duckie in 1986’s Pretty in Pink. “He’s a really nice guy.” He harbors an unrequited crush
on his best friend Andie, and most of the time
is an obnoxious pest, constantly badgering
her for attention. “6:15. Duckie Dale again. Call me, OK? Andie, where are you? This is the Duck. Give me a call, OK? Uh, it’s 6:28…” Duckie consistently overlooks
what Andie wants, instead thinking
he knows what’s best. “I won’t take no for an answer.” “Try, please.” When he finds out that she’s interested
in dating rich guy Blane he tries to shame her out of her crush. “You can’t do this and,
and-and respect yourself.” “Well, I’ll make that decision,
all right?” So ultimately, Duckie’s kindness
is contingent on a woman living her life on his terms. “So-so when you get your heart
splattered all over hell and you’re feeling
really low, and dirty, don’t look to me to
help pump you back up ‘cause ‘cause maybe for the first time in your life,
I won’t be there.” But in spite of all this bad behavior,
the original movie ending that writer John Hughes wanted brought
Andie and Duckie together at the prom. Test audiences booed this conclusion,
suggesting that our culture already had a lower tolerance for the nice guy
than filmmakers may have thought. “Listen, may I admire you again today?” 90’s and 2000’s shows
featured nice guy characters pining for their dream woman, but struggling to
express this in a healthy way. Take Brian Krakow on
My So-Called Life — when he’s jealous
about Angela’s relationship with dreamboat
Jordan Catalano, he starts a spiteful rumor
that the two had sex. “Her and Jordan?” “At Brian’s house.” “Oh my God.” “Can you believe it? Right in the front yard. Brian watched
the entire thing through his kitchen window.” Ross Gellar on Friends
and Ted Mosby on How I Met Your Mother begin their respective series wanting
to find “the one” as soon as possible. “I’m done being single.” “I don’t want to be single, okay? I just- I just want to be married again.” Both men fixate on a woman
they feel is perfect, developing an out-of-control
infatuation even though she’s not quite on the same page. “I don’t want to get married
right now, maybe ever.” After Ross wins his “lobster” Rachel, things go sour when
she starts establishing a new independent identity and career,
leading him to act out in jealous, controlling ways. “Can’t a guy send a barbershop quartet
to his girlfriend’s office anymore?” “It was like you were
marking your territory. I mean, you might as well
have just come in and peed all around my desk.” When these shows were on the air,
we were still meant to sympathize with Ross and Ted,
and root for them to get the girl. So in many of these cases,
it’s only in looking back that some viewers start to
find the nice guy’s behavior creepy. “Now, if only I knew her schedule,
I could arrange a chance encounter.” “That’s great, Ted. You’ll be the most
casual staIker ever.” More recently, though,
our culture has turned on this character type,
even coining the term “nice guy syndrome” to describe the wolf
in sheep’s clothing who performs niceness
with ulterior motives. “You pretend to be nice
and that’s worse.” It follows that modern “nice guys”
onscreen are viewed through a more critical, self-aware lens. “Everyone says
he’s a really nice guy.” “Good point.” “That’s exactly the problem. Because he’s so nice,
people don’t wanna think he’s capable of awful things
so they let him off the hook.” If you look back,
you can find subtle critiques of the Nice Guy scattered
throughout film history. In 1951’s A Place in the Sun,
our seemingly nice hero wants to be with Elizabeth Taylor’s
rich beautiful Angela so badly that he plots to murder his
poor pregnant girlfriend to get her out of the way. “…and there was a moment
when you might have saved her. Who were you thinking of,
just in that moment? In your heart
was murder, George.” In 1958’s Vertigo,
the apparently harmless Scottie (played by Jimmy Stewart,
subverting his own Nice Guy persona) is so fixated on the idea
of a perfect, non-existent woman that he obsessively controls
an actual girlfriend. “The color of your hair.” “Oh, no.” “Judy, please. lt can’t matter to you.” and inadvertently
causes her death. In 1965’s Repulsion,
an exploration of female fear of men nice guy Colin aggressively
pursues Carol, even though she
doesn’t engage with him. “Are you playing hard to get?” When she won’t open
her apartment door to see him, Colin breaks it down justifying this threatening,
violent behavior as an expression of
his romantic passion. “I had to see you that’s all.” But when it comes to our
modern skepticism of the Nice Guy, the tide started to turn
with 2009’s 500 Days of Summer which was meant to be
a deconstruction of the trope. The story looks at how
the idealistic Tom projects onto his dream girl Summer,
ignoring all the times she tells him that she’s
not looking for love. “I just don’t feel comfortable
being anyone’s girlfriend.” “I just don’t
want a relationship.” “Well, you’re not
the only one that gets a say in this! I do too! And I say we’re a couple,
goddamn it!” Director Marc Webb said, “The movie is very intentionally
told from the perspective of the guy, and we wanted to
identify his shortcomings. He wasn’t observing
the inner life of the Summer character. He projected on her…
we think of that as romantic, but really it’s just
intellectual laziness.” “It’s Tom’s fault. I think that if you really pay attention,
Tom’s not listening to Summer. When you hear something
that doesn’t fit into what you wanted to hear, you still have to
update your thinking.” Still, the movie’s
intended message didn’t stop many viewers
from seeing Summer (who herself is
a deconstruction of the manic pixie
dream girl trope) as the villain who coldly
breaks Tom’s heart. This popular misreading
reveals that, at the time 500 Days
came out, culture was still biased
in favor of the nice guy. That same year,
Inglourious Basterds gave us Frederick Zoller who presents himself
as a polite, smitten suitor. (In French) “It’s been a
pleasure chatting with a fellow cinema lover.” But the film subverts this —
because this guy is a literal Nazi who snaps when Shoshanna
turns him down one too many times. (In French)
“Frederick, you hurt me.” “Well it’s nice to know
you can feel something, even if it’s just physical pain.” Love, Simon’s antagonist Martin
also sees himself as a nice guy,
though no one else does. He cruelly blackmails Simon. “He told me that
if I didn’t help him get with Abby,
he’d out me.” But when his romantic
grand gesture for his crush Abby bombs,
he does out Simon after all. “We should all probably
be talking about this instead of Martin Addison’s
homecoming debacle which was actually
kind of sweet, and romantic, if you think about it.” Netflix’s You
is the darkest subversion of the trope yet. Bookstore manager Joe creates
a perfect nice guy image to win Beck. “I mean, you’re a Nice Guy
with the ‘You are remarkable’ stuff.” but he’s actually stalking her,
tailoring his personality to what he knows
about her, and killing off anyone
who poses a threat to their relationship. “Everything I do,
I do to protect you, Beck.” 2020’s Promising Young Woman
offers a full-on revenge fantasy, in which vigilante
Cassie targets fake nice guys she knows will try
to take advantage of her. “I go to a club,
I act like I’m too drunk to stand. And every week,
a nice guy comes over to see if I’m okay.” “You okay?” Thus the movie’s takeaway
is similar to You: these men who tell themselves
they’re protecting a woman from the bad people
out there are really the ones she needs protection FROM. “You are the bad thing. You are the thing that you should have killed.” “I’m a nice guy.” “Are you?” Ultimately, the nice guy
has evolved from the underdog romantic
into the villain of our times. “I used to think
it was something else. That you wanted me
to be yours. That you wanted
to possess me, but no this is so much
simpler than that. You hate yourself.” This shift in popular opinion is largely due to the
Me, Too movement and a growing awareness
of the nuances of male entitlement. As Rebecca Pahle
writes for Mashable, “You used to be able
to shrug aside the Nice Guy’s more stalker-y tendencies—
so the media they appeared in told us because they were
just so damn harmless. What can a socially awkward
nerd really do? The answer, we now realize,
is ‘a lot.’” “If it’s ‘creepy’
to use the internet, military satellites,
and robot aircraft to find a house
full of gorgeous young models so I can drop
in on them unexpectedly, then fine, I’m ‘creepy.’” “I’m a nice guy. ‘Cause I tell ya if you say no,
I’m gonna be there every day at the coffee shop
having breakfast until you say
yes to me.” The nice guy is largely
defined by his romantic side. But this character’s
infatuation frequently takes the woman’s
desires out of the equation. “I just don’t
think of you that way.” “Well, try. I’ll wait.” Romantics like Ross,
Ted, Tom and Duckie are so single-minded
and sure they’ve found their soulmates that
they don’t pause to consider whether their love object
feels the same. “I’d like to marry her.” So ultimately, the nice guy
needs to accept that you can’t will someone
into feeling what you feel “You can love Andie,
but that doesn’t mean she’s gonna
love you back. What I’m trying to say
is you can’t make it happen.” Downton Abbey offers
one of the most interesting cases of this phenomenon: Daisy never feels anything
remotely romantic for kind, gentle William
yet she’s pressured into marrying him
to make him happy. “You always said
I wouldn’t have to marry him when it came to it.” “Daisy, he’s dying. What difference does it make?” Nice guy stories
tend to send the troubling message that a man’s
relentless persistence will reward him
with the woman in the end. “I mean, sometimes
persistence pays off. I said ‘yes’ eventually.” This is reflective
of a culture where “no” is often interpreted
to mean “convince me.” “What could she mean
when she says no? I don’t know,
it is totally cryptic.” “This is far from over.” On How I Met Your Mother,
Ted’s whole guiding philosophy is that you should
never back off and move on, even when it’s completely
inappropriate (like when the woman
you love is engaged to your friend). [Enthusiastically] “And when
you love someone, you just,
you don’t stop, ever. Even when people roll
their eyes or call you crazy. Even then. Especially then! You just — you don’t give up!” The nice guy
is the kind of person who bemoans that
chivalry is dead. “We’re a couple of nice guys
which stopped being a desirable character trait
about half a century ago.” But this passion for respecting
women may not be all that it appears. “Sometimes, I swear,
I’m the only real feminist you know.” “I’m wearing this shirt
and you won’t even let me nut?!” The nice guy often
makes romance into a moral issue, so that if a girl
doesn’t like him, she must just not
like being treated well. “She rejected romance,
honesty and respect.” He expects the woman
to be interested in him because of his inner goodness,
or because he’s so in love with her. But this idea is hypocritical
because the nice guy is usually drawn to his crush
at least in part out of physical attraction… he’s not exactly looking around
for an awkward girl on his level of the social hierarchy and
falling for her just because of the intensity of her feelings. Finally, this character type
often builds up a fantasy of his love interest that isn’t representative
of who she really is. “I guess I’m no longer
the virgin queen of Dawson Leery’s hand-held fantasies.” You emphasizes how
the nice guy lives in his head through Joe’s creepy narration. “A proposal: why don’t
we spend the day together tomorrow,
just you and me?” The way his internal
monologue refers to Beck as “you” makes it seem
as if he’s carrying on a conversation with her…
except that, of course, she’s not really a part of it. So in many of these cases, as in Vertigo’s early subversion
of the trope, the nice guy is in love
with a phantom. And as soon as the woman
shatters that illusion and asserts her individuality
it’s no more Mr. Nice Guy. “Either, she’s an evil,
emotionless, miserable human being
or she’s a robot.” The nice guy may feel
victimized by more confident men or beautiful women. “Why is it pretty girls
think they can treat people like crap and get away with it?” “Centuries of reinforcement.” But the truth is that
he is his own worst enemy. The character frequently dims
his own light through self-sabotage. “You’re deliberately flunking
your courses so that you can stay in high school… You run yourself down. Why do you do that?” In the finale of
My So-Called Life, Brian writes a romantic
letter to Angela for Jordan to pass off as his own,
Cyrano de Bergerac-style, and she’s blown away
by its heartfelt contents. “It’s, like, the most
incredible letter I’ve ever gotten.” Show creator Winnie Holzman said,
“it wasn’t the Brian that was walking around in life
who wrote that letter. He went to this really
deep place inside himself, and he wrote from there. That’s what spoke to Angela.” Holzman’s words reveal
how Brian has done himself a serious disservice by
not showing Angela his true self before this point. Even then, he’s
hiding behind Jordan. “You’re using him too,
to like express your true
feelings toward Angela.” And when Angela
directly confronts Brian to ask if he wrote the letter,
and it’s implied that she’s developing feelings for him too,
he still won’t take credit for it. “I have to know, because–” “Know what? There’s nothing to know.” The Perks of Being a Wallflower
makes a similar point in the way Charlie sells himself
short by not pursuing his crush, Sam. “Then why didn’t you
ever ask me out?” “I just didn’t think
that you wanted that.” “Well, what did you want?” On 13 Reasons Why,
Clay never musters the courage to tell his classmate Hannah
how he feels about her. The show implies
that there’s a chance it could have helped
Hannah to know someone cared. “Why didn’t you say
this to me when I was alive?” which gets at the point
that it’s not just HIMSELF the Nice Guy hurts
by withdrawing. “You can’t just just sit
there and put everybody’s lives ahead of yours
and think that counts as love.” And because he’s not able
to express himself, he may be lacking
in emotional intelligence or empathy for
those around him. “You don’t understand
people, Krakow.” The nice guy has
a tendency to take a passive role in his own life. “The pity thing? Not good. If you want crappy things
to stop happening to you, then stop accepting
crap and demand something more.” But by being so self-protective
and risk-averse, he lets his feelings
fester into self-loathing and ensures that he
doesn’t get any closer to what he really wants. “She probably wouldn’t
go out with me, anyway, but how do l know that
for sure, if l don’t ever ask?” So the nice guy needs
to develop the courage to face the possibility
that his feelings aren’t reciprocated and in confronting this fear,
discover that he can survive rejection
and move on. “If she laughs, she laughs. And if she doesn’t love me, she doesn’t love me,
but if I don’t find out…” In Pretty in Pink
once Duckie gets over his infatuation with Andie,
we discover that this guy IS genuinely sweet. “You look stunning. Really. It’s-it’s breathtaking.” And encouraging his
friend to follow her heart. “If you don’t go to him now,
I’m never gonna take you to another prom ever again,
you hear me?” makes Duckie feel good, too. So what does a true nice guy
look like in our modern world and how does he differ
from the faux nice guy? To All the Boys I’ve Loved Before’s
true Nice Guy Peter Kavinsky is that total unicorn who,
besides possessing the expected love interest qualities
of good looks and self-assurance, is unusually romantic and thoughtful. “I even packed the snacks. I asked Kitty where to find those yogurt drinks
you like so much.” “The Korean grocery store
is all the way across town.” “I know.” Rather than falling in love
with an idea of Lara Jean, he takes the time to listen
and get to know who she really is. “You’re a good listener.” Peter respects his partner’s
desires and boundaries “I don’t want to rush you.” And he treats her not as the subject of his adoration but as an active participant
in the relationship. “If you want me to read that,
then you need to give that to me.” On Parks and Recreation,
real Nice Guy Ben Wyatt supports his partner’s
aspirations 100%. “I love how
independent my wife is.” championing her instead
of trying to control or limit her out of fear she’ll slip
away from him. “Indiana native, supremely qualified,
and she wrote that she wanted to be governor in her
kindergarten dream journal.” These modern examples
of true Nice Guys call back to authentic
ones of the past, too. Jimmy Stewart’s
George Bailey in It’s a Wonderful Life
is the quintessential Nice Man audiences love because
he cares about others, has a sense of community,
and makes sacrifices to help people. “I got two thousand dollars. Here’s two thousand dollars. This’ll tide us over
until the bank reopens. Alright Tom,
how much do you need?” Tom Hanks has made a career
of playing actual Nice Guys, and in movies
like Splash, that coincided very naturally
with getting the girl he loves. So really, it’s always been
great to be a Nice Guy, and it still is. What differentiates
a real nice guy from the knock-off version
is simply authenticity. The faux nice guy’s grand
gestures can come off as cringeworthy and
even manipulative. “You’ll receive Cliff Notes
versions of his thesis length emails listing the things
he sees in you that no one else sees.” Or he may expect a prize
for acting like a decent person. “I went to a lot of trouble
to solve your dress problem, and I think I at least
deserve to see it on you.” But while fake niceness
abounds in our world, true kindness sets you apart
like a diamond in the rough… and in the end,
real nice guys finish first. “I need you to know that I like you,
Peter Kavinsky. And not in a fake way.” This video is brought to you by Audible,
the audiobook service that offers an unmatched
selection of audiobooks and access to exclusive content. Audible members get to choose
3 titles every month. One audio book and
two audible originals that you can’t find
anywhere else. And your unused credits
roll over to the next month. Plus you own your
audio books so you can go back
and listen anytime, even if you cancel
your membership. One audiobook you can
check out right now on Audible is Malcolm and Me,
Ishamel Reed’s reflection on the legacy of Malcolm X,
who he met in a life changing
interview in 1960. Start growing your digital
library with Audible today. Just click the link
in our description below, audible.com/thetake
or text “The take” to 500-500 to try it out now.

73 thoughts on “The Nice Guy Trope, Explained

  1. Start listening with a 30-day Audible trial. Choose 1 audiobook and 2 Audible Originals absolutely free. Visit http://www.audible.com/thetake or text thetake to 500 500.
    Support The Take on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thetake
    Subscribe to keep up with our latest videos, and let us know what you want to see next!

  2. I got to say as someone who loved How and Friends this was really eye opening for me.

    To be fair to Ross he did try to get over Rachel a few times and move on but she'd pull him back in just as often as he'd done it to her, and Ted, although he crossed the line and got creepy quite a few times, and didnt listen to Robin. Robin did like him just didnt want the same things as him. I dont know that its entirely fair to lump the two in with the other characters who seemed way out of line.

    But still, I'd seen most of those characters and never saw it that way until now so thank you for the new perspective.

  3. I got to say as someone who loved How and Friends this was really eye opening for me.

    To be fair to Ross he did try to get over Rachel a few times and move on but she'd pull him back in just as often as he'd done it to her, and Ted, although he crossed the line and got creepy quite a few times, and didnt listen to Robin. Robin did like him just didnt want the same things as him. I dont know that its entirely fair to lump the two in with the other characters who seemed way out of line.

    But still, I'd seen most of those characters and never saw it that way until now so thank you for the new perspective.

  4. Ross Geller was literally obsessed with a girl younger than him for ages. When he finally got to be with her, he not only REFUSED to accept that Mark was just Rachel's partner, he also told her that her job was 'just a job', implying that he was more important. He cheated on his other girlfriends with Rachel, said her name at the altar while marrying somebody else. After they had broken up and were supposed to move on, he hid the messages Rachel got from somebody else. He was so controlling that he followed Elizabeth to her spring break trip (dating his student, what was that about?). Before Rachel gave birth, Ross literally decided that they should marry, and didn't even ask Rachel. And when they got drunk-married in Las Vegas, he refused to annul their marriage because he is an ass. Not to mention, he made Rachel choose between him and her dream job, in Paris, which promised to give Rachel the biggest opportunities in her work. Also, he got mad at his own son for liking a barbie instead of a "boy toy", was very often homophobic towards Carol and Susan, couldn't HANDLE the thought that a MALE nanny would be helping them in raising their daughter, didn't believe that Rachel and Phoebe were actually good at protecting themselves and to prove it, he followed them all day long and tried to scare them, was a party pooper in every single situation, he counted the times he and Rachel had sex, was ready to dump Bonnie when she shaved her head, he hooked up with Charlie literal seconds after she broke up with Joey, who was supposed to be Ross' best friend, and kept repeating that he and rachel were on a break. In conclusion, Ross Geller is not only the complete opposite of a nice guy, he is also one of the most annoying, terrible characters ever. And definitely the worst out of the Friends.

  5. Here is why I have unsubscribed:

    If you want to do a video on "nice guys" do one on "nice girls"

    Equality right? A lot of the videos on here keep critisizing and judging, specifically, men for their behaviour without considering that women literally behave the same or even worse(cause they ca get away with it) than men…

    Make a video about the men that have been put in jail for false rape charges if you want to make one about how some actual good men literally would rather be nice to EVERYONE instead of just the ones that want to be nice to girls they want sex from only to fulfill their fantasy.

    Being nice is not supposed to be a bad thing.. at all.

  6. I do like how you are so critical of "the nice guy" but let other tropes of the hook for their bad behaviour. I am guessing it's because nice guys are easy to hate or something.

  7. May as well say a guy should make enough money so a girl doesnt care whether he is nice or not🙄

    Literally girls have gotten into cars with serial killers like ted bundy and domestic abusers.. you guys do not know what nice is. Simple as that.

  8. it's funny that this sounds a lot like how villanelle feels about eve in killing eve
    y'know
    the one with the clinically diagnosed psychopath
    who is aware of, but doesn't care about what the object of their affection wants

  9. It's time to realize that 'kind' it's different than 'nice', and stop mixing up the two, just because they might look similar on the surface.

  10. I don't think anybody likes rejection, so I kind of understand how a "nice guy" would sabotage himself. Even women suffer from rejection. As far as self-sabotage in My so-called life, I believe in some of those movies, the men did reach out to the women through another figure or avoided being direct because they believe that their inner qualities weren't enough and that the woman would reject him after seeing his appearance. And so often the girl in the movie does show superficial interest in men herself, which leads the young man to sabotage himself in that situation. That's just my take on that.

    In the movie Let it Shine, the main male character submitted a track and a photo of himself and his friend. The lead female automatically assumed the handsome one was the one who made the track. Yes, the lead went down into self-sabotage, but the female lead also was more swayed by the more physically attractive guy. With that in mind, the male figure is going to give up and then be more pressured to help his friend, who's more her physical type, get the girl. Now, there are some guys who think they can do this through another guy until the opportunity arises when they can move in. In that case, it becomes super toxic. In some cases, they do think so little of their own appearance that they feel they can test their inner charm through a more physically appealing man just to see if that's something the girl would be interested in. As a female, I've also seen women guilty of this.

  11. I think Taylor Swift's "You Belong With Me" was a female version of the nice guy trope where she continuously tries to grab the attention of a guy who is already dating someone else. She basically alludes that the guy would be better off with her than with his actual girlfriend, just like the nice guy believes the girl would be best off with him. I think both genders are capable of this kind of behavior and even self-sabotage, it's just considered more toxic when men try to convince a woman to like him. Of course, not honoring a woman's wishes when she actually tells him no, that's when it becomes toxic. But being an annoying presence and trying to win a person's heart…I don't quite see that the same.

  12. that's why I hate the ending of how i met your mother. if you watch to the penultimate episode, it literally dispels the rumor and the it all goes to shit.

  13. I think part of the reason the “nice guy in love” trope exists is because some writers believe that The Chase is the exciting part and that the guy getting the affections of the woman he wants with no obstacles along the way is boring. That's probably why a lot of these relationships go belly up in TV Land once the pair actually gets together because there was no real basis for a relationship such as with Ross and Rachel or Ted and Robin.

    And yet there are ways to still have a “chase” for a legit nice character. Like on Agents of Shield with Fitz and Simmons. While Fitz is plagued by self confidence issues, the road to him and Simmons getting together is plagued by outside forces screwing them over rather than by Fitz sabotaging any future potential between the two of them. And when a "romantic false lead" appears in the form of Will, who's been stranded on another planet, as frustrated as Fitz is that he seems to have lost Simmons to another man, he proves himself to be genuinely good at heart by putting Simmons' own feelings ahead of his own and helps try to rescue him. He even owns up to being jealous when Simmons calls him out on how he appears to not be.

  14. i love watching videos about things i already know, except explained in a way more concise and interesting way and explaining the why behind the things
    like taking a personality test to have someone tell you about yourself

  15. I don’t think Ted is a nice guy 🤷🏻‍♀️ he isn’t pushy or disrespectful nor does he resent robin for not reciprocating his feelings. He’s just a hopeless romantic

  16. Real nice guys don’t see themselves as nice. They see themselves as standard whilst fake ones are narcissistic and believes that they’re the only nice person to exist

  17. Since Ross is on the thumbnail, I thought he was only applicable to the "nice guy" trope in like the first season or two. And then maybe in flashes after. Following that, he definitely fell out of it. If anything, I thought Ross was mostly a jerk.

  18. Oh I was so on board with this video until you listed examples of actual nice guys in old movies… George Bailey and Allen from Splash are NOT nice guys! At what point does Allen stop to get to know Madison? Never! He just has sex with her a bunch of times, demands they get married despite her wishes, and then abandons her at her most vulnerable. George Bailey lets his resentment over what could have been fester and eat away at him to the point of taking it out on Mary! He's downright abusive in some scenes! THIS is your nice guy? Ugh…

  19. The big post-“classic Hollywood” deconstruction of the trope did all of these things in The Graduate. Mrs Robinson is set up as the predator but Benjamin is far more selfish ignoring boundaries in pursuing the daughter, whom he knows and understands even less than her mother, and is cruel to both of them. His entitlement makes him as bad or worse than the suburban phonies he hates – because he wants to keep the privilege he never earned, while making no hard choices to reject their shallow values.

  20. This is exactly why I could never stand this type in movies and shows, and in real life. I always found them creepy and obnoxious and selfish and basically the opposite of attractive (and this video also explained well why Tom Hanks still managed to be so likeable).
    I met guys like this and it's exactly that. Selfishly projecting their own fantasies on you, acting so boring and "by the book" you can barely tell who they even are(and they don't really try to get to know you either because they just like the idea of you and what they imagine you to be), acting passively and obsessively (somehow at the same time) right away, living in their own head and acting like they are the only ones there, and then pretending that they are the victim and you the villain if you dare reject them(self pity and a false self image, which also changes the images of others in their mind). And the worst part is that they can make you believe it and warp your view of yourself.
    So basically anything but nice. Toxic, if anything.
    It's not the "nice guy", it's the "I think I'm nice" guy. Maybe it's tropes like these that are also to blame.
    Men have been taught that this is how they should be, and women that this is the men they should be with.
    Society imitates the media and the media imitates society in a way. That's why it's important to change these toxic tropes.
    Another thing about this trope is that it always claims only "losers" can be nice, and if you're not, you must be a jackass. And that a woman who chose a guy like this (not a "loser") doesn't really love the guy, but the idea of him, being the social ideal, or the comfort he offers. This affects our view of reality and of men and women very negitively as well. It's especially hypocritical considering the "nice guy" always goes for the "perfect woman" (or what he perceives as such) and never the "loser". It's like he's looking for someone ideal who somehow owes him. She's supposed to "take care" of him, otherwise she's a villain or "not okay".

  21. I hateeee the friend zonee. You make a girl chocolat milk, and she still won’t sexed u, unbelievable. What’s the point

  22. When you watch this to know who to stay away from, only to realize that you yourself are acting in such ways

  23. I almost went

    straight from here to watch repulsion, thankfully saw the director from that shit before. What a paradox

  24. I think a quote sums up this trope “If you have to say you’re a nice guy, you’re probably not that nice.”

  25. I think some of the real world version of this trope also comes from 'being nice' being something that's reasonably easy to actively work on. Even if looks could be boiled down to weight and there was a surefire way to force yourself to become funnier, more confident etc. you can't get a date by saying 'look, i might be fat and boring now, but I've started going to the gym and taking improv classes, so i should be real funny and hot in about 3 years'. Being nice is something you can start doing immediately, and something that's not conditional on other factors.
    Given the general age at which this trope is generally leveled, people would likely be in the condition of having finished high school, realised that they don't really have any attractive qualities (via the medium of not managing to get a partner), and it will take years to get any beyond being nice, all whilst their friends are in peak 'getting married, having children' age range. Especially since looks, the easiest one to work on (there's a consistency in results from reducing calorie intake and exercise) is such a confused message in our culture- are you supposed to be happy with the way you look, and not ashamed of your weight, or are you supposed to worry about its long term health impacts, and you certainly shouldn't think that no-one can love you because you're overweight. Even though, in the last case, actually finding a relationship probably would be easier if you were thinner, because people are shallow.
    It's also because some of the things that make people attractive (outside of the 'symetrical face' category) are somewhat reliant on you having made 'the right' hobby choices as a teenager, a period where everyone who cared about you was trying to convince you that there weren't any wrong ones. Simply, having depths that are things you're likely to have in common with a prospective romantic partner, and are still relevant once you're an adult probably does make you more attractive. Given the general age range this trope is associated with (young men), it may have been better to learn guitar than massively rank up your prestige in call of duty 4, even though both of them were, at the time, hobbies irrelevant to whether you were going to be successful in later life. In the latter case, videogame players are still predominantly male, and the actual game is no-longer relevant to conversations at all (whilst also being well known enough that mentioning it as an interest wouldn't likely make someone ask what it was about etc.).

    Of course, people can work on these things, but that takes time, and when you've reached an age where you can know that your lack of attractive qualities is why you're not getting dates (rather than the school things of luck and social standing), everyone else is likely already getting married etc. So people go with being nice, not just because it's the easiest one, but because, in an area where young men are starting to feel time pressure, it's possibly the only one that seems possible (crash dieting being both inadvisable and rarely effective in the long run). And so you end up with these people complaining that being nice doesn't get them laid, because they feel that it's about the only thing they can do, rather than accepting that they'll just be single for a few years whilst they get good at playing the saxophone or something else that women might find interesting beyond 'exists, is not a complete barbarian'.

  26. Michael Cordero from Jane the Virgin is the most quintessentially genuine nice guy in all of television. Wish he'd gotten a shout out in this video. 🙂

  27. i dont know if i was very high or you didnt get the Vertigo movie,,, but its revealed that the girl is the same girl and she pretended to die,,, thats why he became so fucking angry, lol

  28. These guys are what our parents now warn us about. What’s wrong with just treating a person with respect and when you’ve been rejected, just move on? People can’t force someone to love them. This is also true for women. I like how they put that these people seem to love the idea of being in love with an ideal person, not a real person. And if that person doesn’t live up the fantasy, they’re either “cold bitches” or they do what they can to “force” them. Be honest of course, be genuine and true. Yes being rejected hurts and it sucks, and yes, there are jerks out there, but you need to have respect and love the person too. If you’re the jerk, apologize and don’t expect anything in return. They say yes, happy for you, love them for them. They say no, move on and find a real person to love and be genuine! That’s all people really want in a relationship, warts and all!

  29. idk always been in my head and likely to live that way the rest of my time, men are weird to consider it's possible for them to be in real relationships if they're failed at socialization at its very core, that's delusional

  30. So women can be flawed, introverted and feminine and that should be accepted and embraced, but men who are introverted and feminine are selfish and need to change? That's a double standard. Agree with a fair portion of the video, but some of the sentiments at the end are a bit rich. That teen movie referenced at the end is the reverse of the male fantasy in the cool trope- its the women's fantasy of the perfect guy. Open and confident but still having the romantic side that a woman thinks she wants in a guy. It's just as much of a myth. A prototype of a man created by women who is intelligent, community minded, perfectly emotionally balanced- its a caricature not a real man.

  31. This video is right, but it's only half the truth. Women seek mature behaviour in a man, true, but thats's just one aspect of it. They also want him to have the potential for aggression. A woman can choose the so-called bad boy and that guy could still be kinda immature, but he's self-confident, assertive and decidedly not agreeable which makes him more manly and in a certain way also more truthful than a nice guy. A nice guy is not self-confident, does not know himself at all (neither as a man, nor as a human being in general) and thus comes across as fake and unreal and manipulative. For how could you trust a guy who hasn't even gotten things straightened out with himself? The nice guy essentially needs a woman in order to feel like more of a man, which is something that is bound to be doomed – for both. So she chooses the bad boy over him, because the bad boy, although he has his shortcomings in being untrustworthy for a long-term relationship, still displays those traits that woman are looking for. The answer to what a man needs to be is authentic, I think. Be authentic. Don't lie to her, don't play stupid games, if you want to help her with something then do it, because she's a human being, not because you want to get something out of it. But most important, respect yourself first. Know your own way in life, know your boundaries, but don't think you're something better EVER. You are not better. You are also not worse. Follow your passions, be assertive with what you want in life and this kind of energy is what will draw women to you automatically.

  32. I know it sounds cliche but just be yourself. Remember that Bill Cosby was once considered America's Dad.

  33. The movie "Isn't it romantic?" displays this very well. Spoilers! It's a parody of rom-coms and it's very self-conscious about the nice guy and that she will end up with him, but first she decides that, with him having backed off when she didn't show any interest. It's a lovely movie!
    Ps. I cried with Chidi being a good example of the nice guy. But he isn't the trope, he's just a nice person who wasn't looking to get the girl. Just the answers of the universe haha

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *